In this episode of The Knowledge Podcast by Wahoo, join us as we explore the topic of achieving work-life balance. Our hosts, Neal Henderson, head of Wahoo Sports Science, and Sophie Linn, the best designer at Wahoo, share their personal experiences and insights on how they balance their demanding work and training schedules while still finding time for other aspects of their lives.
Join us for a special episode of The Knowledge Podcast by Wahoo, where we dive into the topic of work-life balance. Our hosts, Neal Henderson, head of Wahoo Sports Science, and Sophie Linn, designer at Wahoo, share their personal experiences and insights on how they manage to balance work, training, and racing while still enjoying life. We discuss the benefits and challenges of pursuing both professional sports and a full-time career, as well as practical tips on how to detach from work and sports.
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Sophie Linn 0:00
I think that we always should be questioning what we're doing. And when you are a very busy person that is forced to balance a lot of things, you have no choice but to question. But I would say it's important for everyone to do because then it really makes you use your time wisely and within 10 and building towards something that you want to be in the future, personally, professionally.
Neal Henderson 0:23
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the knowledge podcast by Wahoo. I'm Neil Henderson, head of law who's sports science.
Sophie Linn 0:30
And I'm Sophie Lynn, designer at Walker.
Neal Henderson 0:34
Welcome, Sophie, you've actually been very close to this podcast in physical proximity for pretty much every episode we've ever recorded,
Sophie Linn 0:42
extremely close proximity, I pretty much stand outside the door or sit outside the door.
Neal Henderson 0:48
peeking in I always try to keep my focus, you know, I'm in the moment, are you actually observing us?
Sophie Linn 0:53
Oh, 100%. Good. So
Neal Henderson 0:55
you know what we're here to do. We're here to chat a little bit, discuss some things and this episode is gonna be a little bit different than some of our other like, specific sports science topics. But there's actually a lot of relationships, who what we are going to be talking about in how athletes adapt to training and stress and manage all these things. Today, we're really talking about a work life balance and how some of us at Oahu tried to find a good balance. So that's really kind of our high level, what we're here to discuss today,
Sophie Linn 1:21
dropping the knowledge on how to balance or not dropping the knowledge, I don't know.
Neal Henderson 1:27
And sometimes, you know, you got to go a little over your edge and find where that imbalance occurs and realize, okay, I can't do all of that I need to, you know, kind of change, focus a little bit and have different priorities, to be able to maintain and get back into balance, because it's not normal to never be unbalanced in life.
Sophie Linn 1:46
It's a day to day battle for anyone, whether it's working and having kids or working in training or working in coaching or you know, whatever else you're doing in life, it's always that give and take on a daily basis, whether or not you're living a balanced life or not. Exactly. There's
Neal Henderson 2:01
there's times where it comes in and feels pretty good. And then there's times where it feels like what is going on? Well, let's get started and kind of like rewind a little bit. And tell us a little bit about your background. So Sophie is an elite triathlete. She competes on the world's biggest stages in the draft legal types of races, so not Ironman, not super long distance, non drafting stuff. But the fast, quick races that take a little under an hour or two. Some of them like pretty close to two hours depending on the course,
Sophie Linn 2:30
the baby races. They're the good stuff. I'm a triathlete. I started out as a swimmer and a runner back in Australia and came over to the US to run initially. And once I finished my eligibility running at University of Michigan, I was living with a girl at the time, who was a triathlete. And I was like, Oh, I might as well give this a try, you know, I've got the swim background, I've got the run background, let's just add in the bike. So started doing that a little bit and graduated from University of Michigan and then found myself working for Wahoo which it was kind of like my dream job that I fell into, I didn't even know what why, who was when I was first contacted by them. And I didn't really want to give up triathlon or working and now I am here like, four years later, after, you know, there's a lot of people that are like, you can't race and work at the same time. And I was like, You know what, we're gonna do it. And you know, you've we've kind of made it work. So it's that's kind of where I'm at now. And I'm designing for Wahoo. So, if any of you have an element rival, I was primarily working on that through its launch now very much work on the software side, designing Wahoo products and racing simultaneously is basically where my life is at right now.
Neal Henderson 3:46
Did you do your first triathlon before you started working at Oahu, or had you started working at Oahu before you actually competed in your first received post? I actually did.
Sophie Linn 3:56
I believe I did my first triathlon before I started working at Wahoo Yeah, like a couple months apart. So maybe like eight or so months. I was I started doing triathlon in my second year of grad school, and then obviously started working once I graduated, so it was fairly quickly both happened at the same time. So triathlon has almost grown with with my work career simultaneously.
Neal Henderson 4:20
I would say I have some similarities in that, when I actually applied for my pro license racing, triathlon or elite license. Wait, this is in the Wayback Machine
Sophie Linn 4:29
1950s
Neal Henderson 4:32
It was, let's see, was 2000 Yeah, so it was the year 2000. So you know, y2k, but I had a full time job offer and my elite racing license all in the same week. And it was like, Well, for me, it wasn't really an option of one or the other because the level of of athlete I was was not quite at that highest level I had. I had not really a pathway to go to the Olympics. I could race I didn't leave level and compete against other pros, but I wasn't able to really focus on like exclusively that competition side. So I knew, you know that working was really the smart thing. And for me, it was actually a learning experience and what I did and racing actually informed a lot of what I was doing as a sports scientist and a coach at the time, it was one of those things that it's perfectly natural thing for me to think of yes, you can do both, though I know the vast majority in elite sport do not have both a career at a high level as well as their competition. So you are probably on the on the ITU circuit probably one of the few I would guess that have an actual full time career position as well as then racing at that level.
Sophie Linn 5:45
Like it's definitely not a common thing to do. And I wouldn't say it's the right thing by any means. It's just, I think for everyone, like for me, as you said, when you started out triathlon, you know, you had that full time offer, you weren't making any money doing triathlon, you kind of had to do it. And that was the same with me too. And even though I had ambitions and pathways, I wanted to have that job security and that autonomy on the side before I maybe got more serious about triathlon, and now being more serious about triathlon, I still don't want to give up that job, but it's almost out of necessity. And I think it really makes you put one foot in reality, like it really gives you a good idea of what the real life is outside of just doing elite sport and kind of grounds you for progressing. As an athlete generally,
Neal Henderson 6:34
for sure, I know, you know, having worked with a lot of athletes that have competed and the ITU circuit and many of them full time, it's pretty easy to kind of lose sight of things outside of the sports world. And so within the context of working, training, racing and just general life, like what do you think the benefits are for you in that having both a professional career and professional competition and racing career as well as a professional vocation at the same time,
Sophie Linn 7:08
so I think that there's the age old, saying of like, my results aren't my identity, or my sport is my identity. And that's a really, really hard thing to live by, especially when you're just racing. And something that I definitely struggled with a lot, because I raced very competitively, from a very young age, going up through college, going through all those pathway programs. And I genuinely do think that having that professional job on the side does make it a whole lot easier when triathlon isn't going well. And when things are hard, or you know, you don't have a good workout, or you don't have a good race, I come into the office. And although there's so many people that support me and want the best for me here from a racing standpoint, like they don't care, at the end of the day, if I win or lose, or if I've had a terrible day, they like me for who I am, and they value me for who I am. So it's really easy to like, switch off that side having a full time job. And like, that's a double edged sword, you know, like, having that whole other area of your life, it sometimes feels like it's competing, and you know that, Oh, am I half assing, both by trying to do everything all at once. And, you know, that's, that's like a daily evaluation that you're like, Am I doing this right? And I think you need to have, if you're going to really like push the boundary on doing a lot of different things that require sort of different areas of you as a person, you need to have a really good support network around you. And like, it sounds cliche, but you need to have those people that you really value and trust, and they will call you out or when you're maybe not balancing it right. And you start you know, dropping balls and things like that. It's like you have to have that around you if you're going to do this to make sure that you're maintaining balance, and also just to be an external perspective, sometimes you're actually doing okay, and you might think that you're not because of little things that are going on, but from an actual external perspective, you're doing all right. So yeah, I think that there's there's huge benefits in terms of identity. But then there's also Yeah, you've got a balancer and you've got to maintain that overall perspective of your life that like you're doing okay.
Neal Henderson 9:17
Definitely. And I don't think any would ever, ever accuse you of not being driven and not really committing in both of these areas and being you know, really at the sharp bleeding edge and in both? What do you think some of the, like, bigger difficulties that you've had really in and again, this in the role that you have in both, you know, a foot in both worlds with both, you know, high expectation, high demand, what are the kind of biggest downsides that you've, you've felt,
Sophie Linn 9:47
I think that you know, the sacrifices that have to be made with training and work and competition, you've only got a very limited amount of time outside of that, and you have to spend it incredibly wisely and Sometimes that time needs to be spent by myself when I want to be socializing with other people or doing things. So I think that's definitely potentially a downside, I think that you have to reframe everything that's a downside, into into something that's more positive being like, you know, this is only temporary this is like a choice that I'm making right now to pursue these two vastly different things that are still connected and inform another one another, but at their core, you're sitting at a desk versus like out on the road to training and know that, like, you're on a path, and that this is a temporary thing. And that, you know, there's there's going to be a time where you can enjoy those other aspects of life. So that that's the biggest challenge for me, personally, is just sort of getting your head around, even though you want to do everything right now you have to just like put on the brakes, and really, like have some specific goals. And I'm by no means perfect at it. You know, it's it's only natural to stray from that. But yeah, that's probably the biggest challenge, I would say,
Neal Henderson 11:00
Yeah, I've asked Sophie the past couple days, if you wanted to go skiing with me early this morning, early at our local ski mountain go up and do some skinning early. And she stayed committed to the sessions that she had to make those really, I mean, I feel only slightly, you know, slightly hurt by by her not being able to say yes, but I do also understand, and I know that a couple of weeks ago, she had family in town and had a good week out skiing and being able to do those things. So it's just a matter of like choices and when it fits, so I won't take it personally, I know that yeah, some other day, we'll be able to get out and do a little skinny.
Sophie Linn 11:37
Yeah, ya know, and that's a prime example of like, you just, you know, when people are very driven and very focused on certain areas, no matter what areas of your life that is, you know, you just got that personality type that you want to do everything all the time. And I think that at its core, whether it's late racing and working or, or something else, you do have to step back and make sure that you're prioritizing certain things, getting enough of like family time of your solo time of time with friends, but also staying true to the goals that you've set out, which is not isolated to training and work it's life.
Neal Henderson 12:16
Exactly. With that in mind. Like when you think about work, detaching from work for a lot of us that aren't racing, with that same level of intensity and things that you're at right now we use our activity and sport as that complete, like detachment you have then like another series of, you know, different expectations in what you do as actual training in that regard. So are there other things that you do to try to detach from work that aren't in you know, specifically in sport, you know, swimming, cycling, running, strength training in ski, you
Sophie Linn 12:48
know, like, like skiing is for me, like all being up in the mountains generally is like 100%, my happy place, I think that it's honestly finding training that is more unstructured, so aerobic sessions, and making them into time for me. So that's going on the gravel bike riding with my boyfriend, Alexei and our dog, Willie, you know, running with friends that aren't triathletes, and I'd in different circles like that, you've got to incorporate the time to rejuvenate within the training, because there's just not enough time to do it outside of training and work. So I think that's a huge thing is incorporating that social time, that relaxation time into your training sessions where you can so that you can really focus on the key sessions and know that that's not potentially going to be what like recharges you mentally?
Neal Henderson 13:37
Yeah, no. And I used to do that with some of the athletes that I coached here, you know, in the winter months, again, it's harder being in Colorado, compared to somebody who's in like, a warm location, whether it's Arizona, California, Australia, wherever, it's, it's a little bit different here. But I think the opportunities were really big in being able to go up and go skiing, you know, at least once a week or twice a week doing even more cross country skiing. For those guys, it was just a little bit better fit for what their, you know, skill set and, you know, experiences were and going up and doing that just provided an ability to get some of your general endurance training, but in a completely different environment in a way that has no pressurization expectation, any of those things that you can have, if you go for a run, that's just you know, the same kind of thing, especially in the winter when it's cold. And the footing is maybe suspect all those things. And again, you shouldn't be measuring every session. Yeah, like that. Especially when goal is just getting that general endurance and being able to have an enjoyable experience. As part of it
Sophie Linn 14:38
is cool. Yeah. i It's almost like the idea of double dipping, like, and I feel like that's, that's my entire life is double dipping. Yeah, it's like, I go out training and I learned something about a user or how we would use a product and then I incorporate that into a design and I'm like sweet, double dipped. You know, you go out for a run you have you do it with a friend that you're really cool. close with. So you have the social time and the aerobic time suite double dip. Like, that's that's almost the whole like, goal. I think right now like on a daily basis, it's like what can I double dip?
Neal Henderson 15:11
Double dips can you achieve today? Excellent. So you would probably say let you know big picture, the work that you do it was informed a bit by what you're doing in training and racing as well, right, that there's like a positive give back to your work from what you're doing.
Sophie Linn 15:30
Yeah, and I think that's like a whole philosophy at Oahu is that everyone here really lives the product. Like we were not just making hardware and making software like we're truly all athletes in one respect or another, whether it's a weekend warrior, or like, someone that's like, a professional athlete, or anyone in between. And when you really live the product, and you live the company, it really like motivates you to to want to create these really good products. So whenever I'm out working out, I'm always thinking about what other features can we have, I'm talking to other people being like, what do you want to see on our by computers, or our software, our watches and those types of things. So it really does help inform, and it keeps you really close to our end users, when with potentially we don't have the time to do the research. Because we're always moving quite fast, just like everything, I think there is still a double edged sword then that you know, you want to be careful of your biases, that I'm designing a product, I'm going to want to design a product that I want to use as a professional athlete, and that might be different to someone that wants to use it as a as a more casual athlete. And I'm curious actually about with coaching and sports science, like do you think that coaching sometimes creates a skewed perspective of sports of like, how you were addressed the sport science issues? Or do you think it informs and I have a feeling that similar to the design kind of conflict,
Neal Henderson 16:51
for sure, there's again, really good opportunities that that experience presents in coaching and working with athletes. One of the things is like the kind of athletes the kind of sports that you're involved that I'm involved with, I have a little bit broader range than some coaches in that I've worked with cyclocross athletes, I was actually a swim coach. First I did track and field and actually worked in that realm. I've worked with professional ice hockey teams in terms of strength and conditioning, and explosive sport speed power, and then track cycling. Again, the range we have sprinters that are you know, 2000 plus watt sprinters that are 100 kilos that are totally different animal than a, you know, 55 kilo endurance, you know, focus
Sophie Linn 17:31
on athlete Samson.
Neal Henderson 17:33
And so, for me, it's like one of those things of looking across all those different perspectives. And outside of even some of the sports and activities that have had that that closer relationship learning and reading from, you know, some of the other sports that are out there, and what is going on is some part of that process. I also, you know, tend to think about that, okay, like, training sessions and workouts and things like that, there's something that I pretty much have never asked athletes to do something that I haven't tried to do myself, I can't say that I've always succeeded in some ways, or my output is clearly very, very different. Like I've done sessions where Rowan is like, this looks impossible. And like, it's kind of close. I've done it, though. And, you know, again, my output might be 50%, less than his or something like that. But I have that understanding that also does help in that way of okay, I'm not going to ask people do something that I haven't actually personally tried and sometimes failed, like, Okay, this isn't possible, like have gone back and change the way I approach certain things. I've never done a grand tour though, like something like that. So working with raw and when he was focused on that, or some of the other athletes that I've coached that have had success, there was, okay, I'm gonna have to learn from from the athlete themselves from other coaches from others who have done this and just try some different things. Like I'm always open to trying something and occasionally failing and realizing, okay, that's not the best way to do it. Like I can tell you a couple times with a few athletes that didn't work, we know that, and we won't be repeating that. So don't worry, like we've we both learned and sometimes, you know, moving in that direction is okay, if you always stay safe, and never take a risk. I don't think you're ever going to actually achieve and understand things at a greater level. So I think that's not necessarily answering your question directly in that way. But I think keeping a big picture view and looking at how others respond to the same kind of thing is, is, you know, part of that process as a coach and sports scientist looking back not just my own personal use case, but how these other individuals are using these tools and where are they finding the value or what's difficult for them what isn't working and
Sophie Linn 19:44
so you always have to look at it that every facet of your life, whether it's your life or my life or someone else's life too, even though you coaching an individual athlete like Ryan and you know writing a system workout is very different and is very different use cases. It's all a cheat, like, it's all moving towards the same goal, and one is informing the other. And it's just like, Yeah, with training and designing, you have to visually look at it. Like it's all informing one or the other, and it's hoping one or the other, even if you're failing at one, that failure can hopefully help, you know, the other, the other discipline that you're working towards, and that fairly is not a bad thing. And and finding the line to like, that's really a unique thing, and almost a privilege as well, to find that personal line to find the professional line. Most people don't get to dance along it. But I feel like we're two people that do and it's a interesting place to be. It's not always the place you want to be. But it results in some pretty amazing things and some growth internally.
Neal Henderson 20:46
Absolutely. There are some days that are harder than others. And you kind of think about like, man, should I be doing this? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, having that question every now and then is okay. Like, every day, I don't think you're probably you're probably not in the right balance. You're out of balance, if every single day you're asking that question, but if it's coming up, you know, every couple of weeks for a day or two, maybe,
Sophie Linn 21:09
yeah, and it's having the people around you that are reinforcing that it's okay to question and it's almost a good thing to question that, I think that we always should be questioning what we're doing. And when you are a very busy person that is forced to balance a lot of things, you have no choice but to question. But I would say it's important for everyone to do, because then it really makes you use your time wisely and within 10 and building towards something that you want to be in the future, personally, professionally.
Neal Henderson 21:34
So in talking about balance, I think we both would walk away from this conversation thinking that okay, having balance is a good goal. But knowing that occasionally, you're going to be out of balance, if you have a few things going on, if you have some pretty high goals and different areas of your life that are you know, have high expectations, goals, that you're gonna have some challenges along the way. But to be able to be successful there, you have to have a team of people that you can be grounded by both inside one realm and another, you know, that work in sport that, you know, you may have some overlap, you know, it's not always going to be, you know, you might have a little Venn Diagram of people that like have a really good understanding of both. And then you have some people on one side that are only only from one perspective, and then another group, that is only the other perspective, and then maybe somebody that doesn't have any overlap with any of them might not be a bad group of folks to have, whether that's family or other friends.
Sophie Linn 22:29
Huge takeaway, I think from this is that you need that group of people around you and from all four groups, either side, the ones that overlap, and then people that have nothing to do with it. It's like when you're when you're checking in with yourself, whether you're doing this balance, okay. The people around you are going to help guide on a daily basis in like a bigger picture basis on like what you're doing right? And if they they're good friends, hopefully what could be improved upon? Let's keep it as positive.
Neal Henderson 22:59
And that's again, all part of it. Well, Sophie, I really appreciate your time here coming in and speaking with us today. And I would say this probably not going to be the last time you all are going to hear from Sophie. You can check out her results if you go to the ITU triathlon websites, and we'll see her competing in the coming weeks, months and years for sure.
Sophie Linn 23:20
Yeah, I'll keep peeking through the window in the meantime, so I get my invite back. So look forward to it.
Neal Henderson 23:26
Excellent. And we might have to bring in sir Willie the winner next time. So if you're on Instagram, you can check him out as well and get a little insight as plugged. Nice plug. Exactly get a little insight into part of Sophie's World as well.
Sophie Linn 23:38
He's got a lot to say that one.
Neal Henderson 23:40
He's in the he's kind of in the overlap. He does come in to work a lot. He also does train a lot so he understands me. He is very much in the center of that Venn diagram. Yeah, yeah,
Sophie Linn 23:50
he's that he's very good emotional support on all fronts.
Neal Henderson 23:53
Perfect. That's why I have a pack. I have so many motions. I need three dogs. One one dog will contain all my
Sophie Linn 24:00
nail this is for another time. All right.
Neal Henderson 24:02
Well, with that in mind. That is another episode of the knowledge podcast by wha hoo. We thank you for joining us, and we will catch you next time.